Here's Andrew Sullivan vs. Christopher Rufo arguing over 'trans strippers' vs. British pantomime

Jan 7, 2023

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Here's Andrew Sullivan vs. Christopher Rufo arguing over 'trans strippers' vs. British pantomime ^ | 6/18/2022 | Brett T

Posted on 06/20/2022 6:50:46 AM PDT by NetAddicted

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Here’s Andrew Sullivan vs. Christopher Rufo arguing over ‘trans strippers’ vs. British pantomime Posted at 5:53 pm on June 18, 2022 by Brett T.

We can’t find it right now, but back when the so-called “Don’t Say Gay” bill was in the news, we did a post on conservatives arguing both for and against using the term “groomer” to describe those who wanted to teach sexual orientation and gender identity in kindergarten through third grade. On April 6, Christina Pushaw posted a collage of headlines showing that the memo had gone out to the mainstream media that groomer was a homophobic slur:

The last 24 hours in DC corporate media:

— Christina Pushaw 🐊 🇺🇸 (@ChristinaPushaw) April 6, 2022

We remember at the time Andrew Sullivan calling out Christopher Rufo over his (and Libs of TikTok’s) use of the term groomer:

But you can surely condemn the use of the word “groomer” as a slur to suggest teachers are pedophiles, right?

— Andrew Sullivan (@sullydish) March 23, 2022

On Friday, Rufo kicked the hornets’ nest again by suggesting we start using “trans stripped” in lieu of “drag queen.”

Conservatives should start using the phrase "trans stripper" in lieu of "drag queen." It has a more lurid set of connotations and shifts the debate to sexualization.

— Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ (@realchrisrufo) June 17, 2022

"Drag queens in schools" invites a debate; "trans strippers in schools" anchors an unstoppable argument.

Let the Left try to nitpick the phrase: we can say that "trans" is a stand-in for "transvestite" and we can show videos that are undeniably strip shows.

— Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ (@realchrisrufo) June 17, 2022

Like this (NSFW) video that Libs of TikTok posted Thursday?

This is what a “family-friendly drag show” in a bar looks like

— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) June 16, 2022

Sullivan and other critics of Rufo are calling him out again:

Every Christmas season, British parents take their kids to pantomimes, where a drag queen is always one of the stars. @realchrisrufo says they're taking their kids to see "trans strippers." The post-truth right has truly arrived.

— Andrew Sullivan (@sullydish) June 17, 2022

These are not the same thing, @sullydish.

— Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ (@realchrisrufo) June 17, 2022

Here’s The Bulwark’s Cathy Young:

Some years ago I saw a male actor do a Widow Twanky panto number. It was hilarious and not the least bit sexual (a bit of innuendo but cleaner than 90% of non-drag comedy numbers I've seen). Would totally take a kid to see.

— Cathy Young 🇺🇦 (@CathyYoung63) June 17, 2022

This is like saying “Mrs Doubtfire was a very popular children’s movie so what’s wrong with drag shows?!” Come on. The “post-truth” is not coming from the right.

— Rhonda Rhoades-Musk (@RhondaR45106312) June 18, 2022

Definitely the same thing… great point.

— Sensible Bosh (@BoshSensible) June 17, 2022

As long as we’re going there, the reason why drag worked in contexts like Monty Python etc was that a man dressing up as a not-passing woman was self-evidently absurd. Even kids understood that it was a punchline, not an “expression” of anything.

— David Reaboi, Late Republic Nonsense (@davereaboi) June 18, 2022

Christopher Rufo is a guy who periodically announces, “here’s the bullshit marketing gimmick imma use now to demonize some other people for political gain.”

— Damon Linker (@DamonLinker) June 18, 2022

We are no longer going to let the Left set the terms of debate. The truth is that politics is a form of conflict and rhetoric is its primary weapon. People like Damon would like politics to be low-conflict, low-aggression, and low-risk, which is why they always get steamrolled.

— Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ (@realchrisrufo) June 18, 2022

We have a phenomenon that needs a descriptor. We can submit to the Left's frame and call this a "family-friendly drag show" or we can create our own frame and call it a "transvestite strip show for children." The latter is honest, accurate, and persuasive. Use it.

— Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ (@realchrisrufo) June 18, 2022

This is correct.

It is not honest to call this "drag story time" because that makes it sound like Mrs Doubtfire and bedtime stories.

Transvestite strippers is a proper description of this.

Don't let them hide strippers behind "oh, it's just like Mrs Doubtfire"

— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

1/@realchrisrufo wants to stop using the term "drag queens" and start saying "trans-strippers," and people are missing the point about why.

We don't shift the wording to be dishonest, we do it it because of the tactic the woke use to defend sexualized drag shows for kids.


— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

2/ This video shows what regular people are upset about: a transvestite with breasts exposed doing a sexualized performance in front of children.

The problem is what happens when regular people say "these drag queens are not appropriate for children…"

— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

3/ When parents say "drag queens are not appropriate for kids"

The woke say "what about Mrs. Doubtfire? That was drag too."

See how it works? They do a drag queen strip show, and if you say drag queens are not appropriate to kids they switch and say "what about Mrs Doubtfire?"

— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

4/ When you say "drag queens are not O.K. for kids" the woke bring up Mrs. Doubtfire and you get stuck because technically Mrs. Doubtfire is a drag queen.

People are upset about strip shows for children, not Mrs. Doubtfire or bugs bunny dressed as a girl

This is the woke game👇

— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

5/ What @realchrisrufo is saying is:

"If you say 'drag queen' they can play dumb and start a debate about Mrs Doubfire, and theb do a strip show but pretend it's no different than Mrs Doubtfire. If you say 'trans stripper' they can't do that."

That is the point Chris is making.

— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

6/ 'drag queen' refers to both Mrs Doubtfire and transvestite strip shows, and if you say 'drag queen' you include Mrs Doubtfire and transvestite strip shows.

The woke use this ambiguity to defend strip shows for kids by making it look like you're attacking Mrs Doubtfire.

— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

7/@realchrisrufo is saying: "call this what it is. Don't let them play games with language. These are sexualized performances by transvestites and transsexuals. Let's call them 'trans strippers' so the woke can't hide strip shows for kids behind debates about 'Mrs Doubtfire'…"

— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

8/ That is the point.@realchrisrufo doesn't want you yo say Mrs Doubfire is a stripper…he wants you to use language that prevents the woke from using word games to pretend that the video below is just like Mrs. Doubtfire.

— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

9/ The dishonest way the left uses language means we must refuse to use the wokeists deceptive terminology, and instead use language which prevents them from playing nitpicky language games in order to dodge the point, play dumb, or deceive people.

— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

10/ The trans stripper below is what we want kept away from kids.

Let's call it what it is…a trans strip show. Let's show people what's really going on, and then let the woke try to say the performance in the video below is just like Mrs Doubtfire


— Wokal Distance (@wokal_distance) June 18, 2022

You’re not allowed to name the thing that you’re criticizing.

— “Max” (@MaxNordau) June 18, 2022

Progressives/Marxists understand that those who control language have inherent power

Always refuse to accept their new definitions or use “their” new words.

— Harry (@caped_townie) June 18, 2022

Completely agree with Rufo on this point. The left has been doing that to conservatives for years. Now a mainstream conservative = “White Supremacist” Even conservatives of color!

— MIKE KNOWS…msm is Dead 😵😵😵 (@mmercer01) June 18, 2022

Ruffo has been a master in rejecting the euphemisms of the left. There's nothing dishonest about unveiling the nefarious intentions behind the disingenuous words used by the left to disguise all kinds of perversions of truth.

— The Captain's Blog (@williamnyy23) June 18, 2022

We doubt that “trans strippers” is going to stick the way “groomer” did — and, man, did that hit a nerve. Still, we do need a way to make it clear we’re talking about “kid-friendly” drag shows and British Christmas pantomime.

**************************** trending Twitchy articles --- Germany’s latest move on energy sure to trigger a lecture from Greta Thunberg and climate alarmists everywhere

TOPICS: News/Current Events KEYWORDS: andrewsullivan ; bloggers ; christopherrufo ; groomers ; homosexualagenda ; mrsdoubtfire ; newspeak ; posttruth ; transstripper ; transstripshow ; trash ; twitchy ; twitter ; wokaldistance
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Rufo's thread is about framing the argument. Wokal Distance's tweets expand the explanation. If you're having trouble reading my copy of the article, read the Twitchy link to see properly formatted tweets, plus important graphics and photos.

1 posted on 06/20/2022 6:50:46 AM PDT by NetAddicted

To: NetAddicted

I saw this. The pro-Trans crowd is trying to compare trans-strippers in grade schools to kids watching old Monty Python skits where the guys dressed up as women.

2 posted on 06/20/2022 6:52:57 AM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard (When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.)

To: NetAddicted

They’re very sensitive about being labeled “groomers.”

3 posted on 06/20/2022 6:54:24 AM PDT by Steely Tom ([Voter Fraud] == [Civil War])

To: NetAddicted

They’re finally crossing the line.

This will be the end for all of their twisted crap. They just don’t know it yet.

4 posted on 06/20/2022 7:00:46 AM PDT by skeeter

the reason why drag worked in contexts like Monty Python etc was that a man dressing up as a not-passing woman was self-evidently absurd. Even kids understood that it was a punchline, not an “expression” of anything

5 posted on 06/20/2022 7:01:36 AM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (o --- )

To: Steely Tom

It’s because that’s what they are. We know it, and they know it.

6 posted on 06/20/2022 7:02:09 AM PDT by ecomcon

To: skeeter

Oh lordy lordy, I hope you’re right.

7 posted on 06/20/2022 7:37:22 AM PDT by Sarcazmo ("Sarcasm is the highest form of wit" ~ O. Wilde)

To: Opinionated Blowhard

And Monty Python is ADULT comedy too. Not intended for children.

8 posted on 06/20/2022 8:02:42 AM PDT by Mr. K (No consequence of repealing obamacare is worse than obamacare itself)

To: smokingfrog

even when, in life of brian, men dressed up as women pretending and dressing up as men...

python rocks.

9 posted on 06/20/2022 11:12:25 AM PDT by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world or something )

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